Ranters room

[Clara Listensprechen]

So will all other animals. Humankind is no different. Where humankind is different is in what the human thinks he needs...much of which other animals don't. The human has more requirements to survive nature than any other animal and is least likely to survive nature in his natural state than any other animal. The human has marketing, which other animals don't, and it's marketing that convinces other humans that they need stuff they don't...or what any other animal needs either. The human has bigger refuse piles than any other animal, too.

[miguel of the moon]

Snake or no snake, Ms. Listensprechen, as far as religion is concerned, I recall a little experiment called "Communism" which, incidentally, ended in Russia some 20 years ago - whereupon killing did not stop during said religion-free experiment.

The human has bigger refuse piles than any other animal, too.

I don't see how this makes humanity particularly dumb or stupid, Clara. Even if humanity still insists on using Styrofoam and/or doesn't know yet what to do with it; let alone is obstinate, obdurate, even recalcitrant in keeping outdated nuclear reactors up and running despite profound Earthquake hazard - and ends up with Plutonium leaching into groundwater misanthropy-as-ideology will certainly not work to solve anything 'ya know.

Asking Santa Clause for cleaner energy, or using tooth fairy bucks to recycle is at least a start to solving serious planetary problems

[MCH]

Good point about communism Miguel.
Humans will always find some reason to hate and destroy and envy and steal and kill, etc.

Humans can also go to great lengths to try and understand one another. To try and love and tolerate each other despite differences. To help one another especially in times of need and crisis. We've moved beyond having to merely survive. We have created the means, with our minds, to live and thrive in almost every place on the planet without having to go through a physical evolution to do so. We have not only imagined what it would be like to be up in space we built a transport to take us there and walked on the surface of the moon! Humans can and do transcend just being an animal and I for one think that's really awesome.

Yes there are bad spots that need to be worked out but we can work them out with our minds and hearts and probably some poking and prodding, debates, arguments, concessions, planning and doing.

In reference to secular laws being better than any other law I ask this. In a secular society would it still be considered wrong to kill another? To take from another?

We have already established that humans have strong animal roots, because we are born into these animal, earthbound bodies. Just taking away religious beliefs is not going to solve the problem of humans killing or stealing for self preservation. Fights over land and mates and family and groups will always be there. Natural pressures will always be there. Religions have been beneficial in trying to establish guidelines to over ride basic animal problems. We ourselves sabotage the good that some of the religious laws set up. And I'm talking about the don't kill, don't steal, don't be greedy, don't be lazy and not do your share, don't desire anothers wife or property as that could lead to stealing or killing. Pride, envy, gluttony, despair, wrath, greed, lust, sloth are all ways that mankind can harm one another. Certain religions try to teach of these downfalls so that we can strive to not do them. Personally, I don't see the bad in that.

Gotta run for now,

MCH

[miguel of the moon]

Many religions also teach to celebrate life; be joyful, kind to one another, try not to step on one another's toes, eschew ownership of one another's lives, sing, dance and o'wise be merry!

~miguel of the moon signing out

[MCH]

Well, I think I'm going to call it quits for myself and this particular thread. There comes a time when ya just gotta to say no, lol. No more. Push away from the table or com pie in this case.

I apologize to anyone who might have been offended with any of my words. And I wish Clara all the best.

See ya around a bouts.

MCH

[Prydonian]

Well, it has been said that religion and politics are two subjects that are not good for group discussion as they create friction and tension amongst the debators sharing their opinions.

[Clara Listensprechen]

And yet they require discussion by those who have to live under the laws they pass. There's no avoiding it unless you enjoy dictatorships (as in, having no say in what you're told you'd better do or else under pain of law).

[Prydonian]

And yet such discussions usually only end in arguments and bad feelings all around.

[merlinsseer]

What a delightfully brutal discussion and so politely tense.

[MCH]

Why can't the BBC air Classic Who on BBC America?
Would it really break their billion dollar banks to show them for us?
*grumble grumble*

Gee, just think of all the new viewers they could pick up! please beeb please show them!

MCH