Is All Religion Just Fiction?

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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby Clara Listensprechen on April 27th, 2011, 6:01 pm

Graceful Leonard wrote:Dear Pattie,

Something I'd like to ask you, if I may. Being someone who takes the bible literally, how do you feel about the ideal in western society now of equality for women, gay people and so on? How do you reconcile this with what the bible says. After all, it is a good thing that we treat all people equally, isn't it?

GL


But for sane, secular civilized law, Christians would still be stoning people to death because God commanded this form of capital punishment...instead of being outraged that Muslims adhere to God's commands better than Christians do.

It takes sane, secular law to civilize a barbaric religion.
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby pattie anne on April 27th, 2011, 6:25 pm

dear graceful leonard -

yes, all peoples of all faiths and persuasions should be treated with respect and dignity, this goes without saying.

but if they are sinning and doomed to hell; and later on to spend eternity in the lake of fire with the devil, the false witness and the anit-christ, and we love them, we will do everything we can to change their hearts and minds. of course, only the Holy Spirit can convict and only God can save, but we witnesses to the truth have our small part in it, and this is called The Great Commission.

FACT ONE: God never changes.

FACT TWO: God's Word never changes.

personal FACT THREE: i once upon a time had a child out of wedlock, and it was a sin fifty years ago when i did. this was also a sin a thousand years ago. and it will it still be a sin a thousand years from today.

same thing applies and will always appy for ANY sin the Bible lists as SIN. sin deserves eternal separation from God, unless we deal with it, in the hear and now, and seek salvation though the blood of Christ.

here is a brief list of some of the things the Bible sees as SIN (to list every single sin ever committed would be nearly impossible):

I TIM 1:8-10 KJV

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

2 Timothy 3:1-5 KJV

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

and there are several other places in Timothy, as well as in other books of the Bible that name specific sins. i can provide you with them too, but i think the above will suffice to answer you query.

and yes, even today i believe all the above (as well as a bunch more) are still sinful behaviors. but please don't think we are singling out gays and abortionists for God's wrath to descend upon them. ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. every last one of us! we are all guilty before a totally sinless God eventhough our specific sins may be differernt from each other.

the one i mentioned that was mine was fornication. but i have also been guilty of lying, and stealing, and coveting! [the thing i like about coveting is THAT one will get you even if none of the other ten commandments do. it's just our nature to break The Law, any law.] oh yes, i am also guilty of the sin of adultery (eventhough it was only in my mind). can't forget THAT one. and here, all along, you thought i was a good person. HA! only God is good. however, i should also like to point out that i do not lie as a HABIT, steal as a HABIT, ETC. but you see, in the eyes of a totally holy and totally just God doing something even ONCE separated us from Him, forever. Unless ... Jesus comes into your life ... then the lamb that was lost is found. thank you Jesus.

dear clara -

well, in my humble opinion, i do agree with some of the muslin laws, though i for sure wouldn't want to live for a moment in a country where Sharia law was the law of the land. still, i see nothing wrong with them coming here and rounding up all the pedifiles and dumping them in some old mine shafts around here and i will kindly and at no charge provide the rocks. sorry Lord, it was just a passing thought. i know that You will deal them in Your time Your way.

love,
pattie anne :geek:
"And as for Tom Baker, well, I'll always be the Doctor,
won't I?" TOM BAKER
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby Graceful Leonard on April 27th, 2011, 6:52 pm

pattie anne wrote:yes, all peoples of all faiths and persuasions should be treated with respect and dignity, this goes without saying.


Pattie, thanks, I'm really pleased to hear you say this. I see so many hard-liners from all sides in the news that sometimes it seems there is no tolerance or respect left in the world. And without tolerance and respect for others with different beliefs, we stand no chance, whatever our views.
"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby pattie anne on April 27th, 2011, 7:09 pm

dear graceful leonard -

welcome. i fast (when my health allows it) and pray for the muslims to see The Light of the World every 11 day of the month. i think you can probably guess why i choose that particular day. and even thought i see them as an enemy of my Lord, i still love them, as does He, and want to see their souls saved, and their nations blessed by God for their obedience to His Son.

well, time to bake some cookies, for our pastor's birthday party tonight, after services. think i will do the backstroke to church tonight ... just for something different. [we had 12 inces of rain in less than 48 hours with 'moore' expected on the way TOMorrow.] looks like our "drought" is over! :shock:

love,
pattie anne :geek:
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won't I?" TOM BAKER
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby tch on April 27th, 2011, 9:25 pm

Actually, you can't prove creationism because it's not science. It's religion with a different name. It's a way to sneak religion into public schools.

Evolution and natural selection are science and there's a reason they are referred to as ' the theories of...' in that we take the factual information we discover and apply it to how the world works, as we gain new information, theories are adjusted or discarded.
While evolution has gone through some adjustments, it has not been discarded because it hasn't been disproved because there is actual science behind it.
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby Clara Listensprechen on April 27th, 2011, 10:35 pm

Graceful Leonard wrote:
pattie anne wrote:yes, all peoples of all faiths and persuasions should be treated with respect and dignity, this goes without saying.


Pattie, thanks, I'm really pleased to hear you say this. I see so many hard-liners from all sides in the news that sometimes it seems there is no tolerance or respect left in the world. And without tolerance and respect for others with different beliefs, we stand no chance, whatever our views.
If this is truly the case with Pattie then she wouldn't have stated that the "KJV" is the most authoritative version--she would instead recognize all version as being of equal merit and then address item by item where the versions disagree with each other.

I submit further that this would be beyond the ability of anyone who has read only one version while at the same time proclaiming their pet version to be the most authoritative one. If she believes all Bible versions literally then it follows that she literally believes Psalm 151 because it's in the Septuagint--even though it's absent in the KJV. By similar token she wouldn't be badmouthing Catholics like she just did, either. Etc.
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby MCH on April 28th, 2011, 4:12 am

Clara,

Some Christian "preachers, pastors, ministers and even priests" teach wrongfully, in my book, that opposing, to them, churches beliefs are wrong. I do not think that it is a nice thing to do. This has gone on for a long time. Living in the south surrounded by Protestants I a Roman Catholic, have heard some whoppers from people that were taught weird things about Catholics. One woman had been taught that Catholics don't believe that Jesus is the sun of God. That he was just a prophet like Muhammed. Some are taught that Catholics worship idols. That's a kin to devil worship in their book. Some are taught that Catholics are all going to hell because, well I'm not sure why. But I know that those people are being taught by people that were taught the same things. And so it continues. "shrugs"

For the record, Catholics Do Not teach their young to hate themselves. That is ludicrous. They teach them to love themselves, love each other and love God. Catholic sermons are about reading scriptures and applying them to life today to help people in their lives. I have never been to a church service where anything bad was said about another religion.

I myself cannot quote passages from the Bible. I have read one. I don't know and don't care who wrote it or whatever. I take from it things that fill me with wonder and awe and use it's wisdom and guidance to help me in my life. That involves how I interact with others. I believe in God even though there is no proof of his existence. I don't need proof. That's what faith is. I feel God's touch in my life on a daily basis. I have felt the touch of the Holy Spirit and it was incredible. I also feel Satan's power that continually tries to discredit God in my heart. It is Not for Anyone to dispute what I feel. That is just being rude and is possibly guided by evil intent.

As for is Religion Fiction? I'll leave that discussion to whomever wants to take the time to debate such things.

I also don't care to read any nit picking of what I have written. I have written how I feel. Others can write what they feel. Nit picking Does nothing more than pick nits and generates a lot of negativity.

MCH
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby Clara Listensprechen on April 28th, 2011, 4:49 am

I used to be a live-and-let-live sort of person until I found out how many people had been slaughtered all because religion meddled in government. We are still living with the ongoing slaughters thanks to Britain's mistake with the Balfour Declaration.

And as long as the religious keep asserting this assinine Divine Right to Rule on the local level all the way to the federal level, religion is always going to be your political business...unless you don't vote at all. They pass the laws you have to live by, they collect the taxes they take out of your pocket for righteous overseas military adventures, and it's your business whether you like it or don't.

Unless and until religion stops meddling in government, religion is always going to be MY political business. It is this primary aspect of this beast that makes it imperative to debunk it altogether. I for one am sick of its wars, both cultural and military.
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby MCH on April 28th, 2011, 5:00 am

People have slaughtered each other since there were people. No surprise there. You'd think we were more civilized eh? I guess not as much as we'd like to think. But where does this propensity for slaughter Really come from? It was around before religions wasn't it?

There are all kinds of ways to make changes. Some more effective then others. Pointing fingers usually isn't a most effective way. It just leads to more finger pointing and nothing gets done.

Clara, you aren't by any chance in sales are you? You know the tricks of the trade very well.

MCH
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Re: Is All Religion Just Fiction?

Postby tch on April 28th, 2011, 5:19 pm

I'm with clara, in that if religions don't want to be challenged then they need to stay out of politics.
There isn't a clause in any governing document that allows 'god said so' to trump the laws of the land.
Beliefs can influence how you vote or what causes you work for, but they aren't how we run the country and people will call you on it.
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