Is All Religion Just Fiction?

[pattie anne]

Oh, absolutely.

Religion is man reaching UP to God ...

by prayers, fasting, through prophets, correct dress codes, belonging to a particular group, eating right, being baptized, doing good works, the taking of communion, whatever.

Christianity on the other hand is not a religion, it is a relationship with God's Son.

It is God reaching DOWN to man.

The argument should never be that God is highly unfair by demanding we follow just One Way, One Truth and One Life (through His Son Jesus Christ) to be free of the penalty of sin which is death, but that it is nothing short of a miracle that He has chosen out of His great love for us, to give us ANY WAY OUT.

We are all sinners, we all deserve death. And even as I write this we are all dying. Why do you think we need all that deodorant, and soap, and perfume?

BTW the only way we can learn about this FREE gift of eternal salvation is though the Holy Bible. The Bible being the ONLY book on the entire planet that is:

innerant, God-breathed, God inspired, infalliable (translated: without error or contradiction) IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. [OT in Hebrew, NT in Greek.] With the KJV being our most reliable SOURCE.

I should also like to point out the remarkable structure of the Bible. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by at least 40 different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout. (Just wish I had the TIME and SPACE to tell you 'moore' about this beautiful, eloquent, and chiastic structure.)

There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.

Of course I can understand some of the reasons WHY some folks shy away from the Bible today.

1) The Bible says over and over again both HEAVEN and HELL are very real places. Jesus' first public sermon was on Hell. And two minutes after you take your last breath on this planet, you will wake up in either one of those two places. Still, even hell is but a holding tank for the damned until they are cast into the Lake of Fire, at the end of times; which in all ways, is even worse, than the hell they were just spat out of.

2) Nor was Jesus only a prophet ... or merely a good man, as many religions claim, for He said of Himself, He was God. (That is the main reason WHY the devout Jews of the time, and the Roman's had him killed.)

But you may say, but I am good person, and I am a Christian, and I don't believe in all that rubbish, fairy tale, stuff you scare children with.

Then let us see what The Holy Scriptures (KJV) say of such:

GOOD PERSON:
Romans 3:19
Only God is Good.

CHRISTIAN:
Matthew 7:23
Just because you say that you are a Christian does not make you one. Jesus knows your heart. And one day you will stand before Him, and He will either be your defense attorney, or your prosecutor. And as He is God, don't count on Him loosing too many cases. [I think probably NONE is the number I am thinking of.]

RUBBISH:
2 Timothy 3:16
Bible study is good for all kinds of reasons, but mainly because: "The TRUTH is in there!"

Finally, dear Members of TOM, The Bible proves itself best not by its prophesies coming true (which they have - over and over again) and not by archeological evidence (which there is an abundance of) and not even by its facts known to God, before science knew, but by the CHANGED LIVES of the people who read, study and begin to LIVE it.

Love,
pattie anne

[Moderator]

Dear Pattie Anne -

Phew!

When philipdalton said he wanted to have a debate, I was really hoping that is what it would be, lots of different opinions from both sides of the aisle. But after the first page, didn't see much chance of that happening. Then came page two. I do believe you have evened things out, ah, slightly. And thought I doubt you will have much effect on anyone who has posted here, we do have a sizable group of lurkers and fence sitters. So I look forward to the next round.

Best,
Dirk

PS: You have established what version of the Bible you put your faith in P. A., so what is your spin on demons, devils, angels, and gods?

D. G.

2PS: Maybe so much thought about religion of late philipdalton, as Easter is this month. Though I don't ever remember it being so late in the year.

D.

[Graceful Leonard]

Is all religion fiction?

I don't know, and nor is there conclusive proof on either side, regardless of peoples' insistence.

One thing I am certain of, however, is that the bible is at best allegory and, in parts, an inaccurate record of certain historical events, open to wide interpretation. Over the centuries it has been rewritten and edited, large sections chopped out, passages shifted around and misinterpreted. It cannot be taken literally.

I have enormous respect for the faith of others, and religion can do a great deal of good. The negative aspects are all attributable to those human beings (i.e. not God) who misuse religion to control others, and spread intolerance and hatred.

[Toothy Grin]

Yes. All religion is a fiction. And what a mess it's made of the world.

[Graceful Leonard]

Yes. All religion is a fiction. And what a mess it's made of the world.

Religion hasn't made a mess of the world -- certain people have made a mess of the world by using religion as an excuse to wage war and impose their perverted sense of morality.

If religion ceased to exist tomorrow, such people would simply find other means to justify their actions and subjugate the fearful and gullible.

[tch]

But, without religion, people would at least be a bit more honest in the 'why' when they treated other people badly.
Now, they just use 'God said so.'

I think part of the problem with this debate is that 'religion' is a big, vague term, and so we drift into the bible, which then drifts further into spirituality/belief/faith etc and it gets all 'wibbily-wobbily-timey-whimey'.

So, this is my take on it all:

Personally, I have no problem with faith/belief, as everyone has faith in something that gets you through the day. As long as it's not being used to hurt anybody, believe as you will.

Organized religion, I don't have much use for. At a community level, it does some good, in the big picture, I think it's caused more harm than good.

The Bible: fiction. History and non-fiction are solid and provable. It's not allegory, teaching lessons, 'well, it depends on what version you believe' or ' you can't prove it's not true'.

That's my take on it. I look at this world and think it's enough.
Was it all caused by a big man in the sky, a guy with a thunderbolt or a guy with an elephant's head? Who knows?
Does it make a difference?
Not really. World will still turn, the tide will still come in, my kids will still force me to watch anime with them and jelly babies will still be tasty.

I'm done with this soapbox if anyone else wants a turn and think I'll go back to chatting about who was my favorite companion, who would win in a fight between Yetis and Ice Warriors and how babe-ish Liz Sladden still is.

[Who dat?]

Is all religion just fiction? I think I'll get in on this one.
I was raised as a Lutheran with the King James version of the Bible and red it pretty much cover to cover. Still there's much debate over the phrases and to whom they are attributed. Who said what, and when, seems very important in the scheme of it all and they still haven't sussed it out some two centuries later.
To me religion is a set of guidelines for behavior not something to be taken as true or false. I think all the religious texts say pretty much the same thing but in different ways. I try to follow those ways but I don't subscribe to any specific doctrine, book, or manual. I know of far too many people who use religion as a crutch when things don't go their way. The phrase "If God had wanted it to happen it would have." has passed my ears way too many times as an excuse for not getting something done.
Other than the passages stating the desired guidelines the rest of the text, regardless of the book used, is just examples and so much blah, blah, blah. I've read portions of religious texts from the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Bhagavad Gita, etc, and still can't find any compelling reason to follow one or the other.
I'll hold off on my opinions of the human races origins and fate as that's another topic altogether.

[pattie anne]

dear mr dirk -

think what i stated in the post above states pretty plain what i think of gods, devils, angels and demons, but just in case:

One God - one devil - many fallen angels (demons) (about 1/3 of the heavenly host [military word] at the time they buged out) but the rest of the angelic host [military word again] stayed loyal to the one true God of the universe. BTW as a side note, not all angels are male as many people suppose. see:

Zechariah 5:9 KJV

but was rather hoping you would ask me about U.F.O.s, from the viewpoint of an apologetic, fundamentalist, dispensational, premillennialist, evangelical Christian, MARANATHA begging, Southern Baptist viewpoint.

[please google all words you are unclear about in the above statement, but are interested in knowing what they mean, as they pretty well describe what i am.]

oh well, we live in an imperfect place, where Jesus is searching the wide world over for spiritual fruit, and not just another religious nut.

love,
pattie anne

PS: just wanted to add two 'moore' things:

1) if you, dear Members of TOM, are right and i am wrong, nothing BAD will happen to any of us, ever, right? but if i, in my minority, is the one WHO is right, guess WHO has a BIG problem?

2) and two, i know it may seen to a lost world that we christians are promotiong HATE as we seem to be unable to compromise our beliefs to fit in with the new world order concept that promotes - all ways to God PLEASES God. but nothing could be further from the truth. it is LOVE that motivates us, only concern for you and where you will spend eternity, as we sincerely believe that without Jesus Christ the Son, and God the Father, and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, in your life, it really will be all over for you, very soon now. and though, in the here and now, you desperately seek YOUR WAY and not God's way in your life, when at last the Jewish carpenter from Nazareth does give you your wish, and separates you from His Light, trust me, you aren't going to like it.

"Danger Will, Robinson, warning! Warning!!"

on second thought, don't trust me, TRUST in the One WHO has earned you trust, and deserves it. trust in God and His word (The Holy Bible - KJV).

p a

footnote: and please don't anyone go away. i so wish to banter this subject back and forth further. ask me questions, cross examine, counter my arguments, just don't turn away in the middle.

"come let us reason together."

p.

[Graceful Leonard]

But, without religion, people would at least be a bit more honest in the 'why' when they treated other people badly. Now, they just use 'God said so.'

You would hope they would be more honest about it, tch, but I seriously doubt it.

If they didn't have God to blame, they would just say that it was in our national interests, or national security, or to protect human rights etc.

In a sense, by blaming religion in general, we let these people off the hook too easily when they should be providing answers.

[Graceful Leonard]

footnote: and please don't anyone go away. i so wish to banter this subject back and forth further. ask me questions, cross examine, counter my arguments, just don't turn away in the middle.

"come let us reason together."

p.

Dear Pattie,

I don't share your views, but I do fully respect them, and I would like to ask you a question, if I may.

How literally do you take the word of the bible? I can understand why people believe, but I find it hard to understand those who take the text literally when there is overwhelming evidence of revisions, ambigious translations, historical inaccuracies etc. Do you question it, or must it be taken on faith alone?

Thank you
GL