Ack Continuity!

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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby The Cloaked One on May 6th, 2011, 3:02 am

Well, you write what you watch. If you want to write Doctor Who, you've got to go back and watch it. Really watch it and study it.
Not saying I didn't enjoy Firefly, but if RTD wants to write in that style he should either work for Joss Whedon or George Lucas.
Steven Moffat makes an excellent writer for when he is given one serial per season, but a poor director because he does not understand what Doctor Who is. Years later, he might even admit that he never quite understood the core of Doctor Who and that he was unable to bring Doctor Who to what he wanted as director.
JNT took a number of years to get Doctor Who right. Unlike the old directors like Sydney Newman and Graham Williams who stayed for only a few years, JNT stayed for 9 and watched the show crumble apart in his hands. The difference between him and the old ones were that when Patrick Troughton was selected to be the second doctor, Sydney Newman did not want him to be the doctor but went along with it because his underlings might know better. Pertwee asked his first director how he should ask, and the director told him to be himself. Later the director asked Pertwee what he wanted and Pertwee responded that all he wanted was 'two moments of charm.' The directors were there just to see things go smoothly, it was the Doctor who was the star of the show and who had a huge level of power and control (though the second Doctor had to sit on strikes with his companions to get time off from filming).
For JNT, he did not understand this until the sixth's Doctor's second season, but by that point it was too late.
Turner's attempts to bring the audience in with cleavage (Peri) was not going to fly for poor/strange writing. Though, if he were not dead, and he returned to being director, he would probably be a better pick than RTD and Moffat through sheer experience alone.
We all, however, would prefer someone who was faithful to the old series. Someone who was not a novelist from the canceled period, or a visionary for new who. Although the seventh Doctor showed some potential and things were beginning to get a bit interesting, the series had already divulged so far. I can't complain too much about Lungbarrow which followed with the Seventh Doctor's arc, it was too different from the essence of Who. I'm afraid that JNT could not restore the series to the place where he left it no matter how many years he would be given.
Si-Fy and Fantasy, that is where my heart lies. To Doctor Who and its 18 years of brilliance, still waiting on the 50 yr anniversary!
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby The Cloaked One on May 6th, 2011, 3:10 am

If I were director, not going to happen, I would fix all of the largest mistakes in a simple 26, 25 minute long, episodes season. The very first thing to go would be the Time War. Not forgotten, not dropped or anything, I would resolve the endless stalemate and I would actually show events from the Time War.
This would bring back Timelords and the Renegades. I would also work with some of the older characters a bit: K'anpo and the such. The season would be very character driven. Season 2 would be a return to a looser format with self contained serials like during the Baker, Pertwee, Troughton, and Hartnell era.
Keep things simple, that's how you do it. I'm not going to pitch you guys, but that's how I'd do it. The show has enough in it to actually fix itself if the proper eyes look at it.
Si-Fy and Fantasy, that is where my heart lies. To Doctor Who and its 18 years of brilliance, still waiting on the 50 yr anniversary!
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby tch on May 6th, 2011, 3:50 am

Personally, I'm a big fan of cleavage and strange writing, but I think what most hurt the Sixth and Seventh Doctor eras was that JNT was too busy trying to stretch the constantly being slashed budget and fighting the BBC ( who wanted Who gone, but didn't have the nerve to just do it out right) to be the steady hand at the tiller the show needed.
His desperation to keep the show alive lead to some poor choices and not enough time spent focusing on the show.

The Trial season had great potential, but nobody had a clue what was going on and it shows in the writing ( course, JNT was also stuck with Pip and Jane, not the best writers the show has ever had) and then when it went pear shaped JNT and Colin took the brunt of the blame.

Whatever faults RTD and Moffat may have, they are a strong supervisor for the show and know where they want things to go and making things work.
I really don't see where either 'didn't get what Who is', myself. RTD tended to think he was cleverer than he actually was and fell a bit too in love with the 'Lonely Doctor' theme, but Moffat has given us a solid first season, one of the best just regenerated stories the series has ever had and really, the weakest story of Moffat's reign, for me, was the Silurian two parter, in which he visited the shows past.
Both men had some brilliant bits in all their seasons, that were pure Who.
Sure there have been weak episodes ( yes, Love and Monsters, I'm looking at you!) but every Doctor had those. Overall, they got me my Who back and then got Sarah Jane her own show.
I'm willing to forgive a few stumbles for that.

Now, If they'd only bring back the Ice Warriors and the Meddling Monk, I'm might forgive them for putting the Master in a hoodie.
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby The Cloaked One on May 6th, 2011, 7:31 am

The Silurians episode was ok, but it was the same both times with the Third Doctor. I never particularly liked the story the first time it was told, to have it appear again was eh.

The strongest regeneration story for me was Spearhead in Space. The eleventh's was very confusing. He comes in to a house of a little girl, tries to be funny (Maybe it's British humor, but the scene was just not funny to me), the girl tells him there are demons in her house and the Doctor decides to warp off with a "I'll be back." Tom Baker would've been investigating immediately, especially since he sensed the presence of the 'demons.' Then Amy, 20 years later, shows up as a kissogram.
I will admit, I sort of liked people recognizing the Doctor based off the stories Amy told, but everything else...
The Eleventh's confusing deductions with the camera zooming everywhere, the monster shows up for only a minute and a half for all the build up, the Doctor does grandstanding in front of the Atraxi. As 'cool' as this is, it's not something the Doctor would ever do. The companions constantly calling him 'clever' 'witty' etc, is unnecessary. That should be conveyed in the script, we don't need everyone in the show talking him up (a problem in general through New Who).
The last major problem for this, as well as the next two serials was that Matt Smith couldn't talk over the background music. There was several points where I could not hear what he was saying at all no matter how many times I rewound and turned up the volume.
Moffat and Smith get some reprise though since this was the first time Moffat got to be director, he was getting used to his role.
This was Smith's first time as the Doctor, much less he did not have much acting under his belt before joining unlike the older 'seasoned' actors.

The Sarah Jane Adventures, I was happy to see her with her own show and having fun and bringing in a new audience, but I could never get into it myself. I tried several episodes, starting with the pilot, and a handful of others, but the three problems I had were the absurdness (Sonic lipstick, vultures as villains, alien's using soda for mind control, etc. Minor complaint, it's more kid orientated), moral dissonance (having the slitheen parents beg for their child to be saved and to have it killed anyways, I thought this was more kids orientated.), and Sarah Jane being 'dumbed down' a bit. Sarah Jane, during her run, was constantly everywhere and on the cutting edge, but for the sake of balance in her series, they made her 'weaker' so that the kids would seem smarter and better. If I had been doing the series, I would have the kids constantly in the library, constantly reading her journals (Luke might notice errors in her reports occasionally that could be followed up, etc.) The show would not necessarily need to be educational, but encouraging education would easily be a secondary effect of keeping the show in a more 'realistic' approach. No complaints with the actors or anything else, but unfortunately they just were not able to make the show for me.
I would love to see the Meddler and some of the other renegades. I sort of liked Pip and Jane Baker. I agree that the Trial of a Timelord seemed wandering, but I really enjoyed the ending. I read up on the original plannings for the ending, Peri was supposed to die, etc, but I feel that JNT made the right choice with having Pip and Jane cap it off with a happier ending to wrap up the season.
And most first episodes tend to be strange, such as Robot.
Si-Fy and Fantasy, that is where my heart lies. To Doctor Who and its 18 years of brilliance, still waiting on the 50 yr anniversary!
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby tch on May 6th, 2011, 10:28 pm

See, Matt Smith had me at 'You're Scottish...Fry something!" and his relationship with 11 year old Amelia has impressed me more than the one he has with the kissogram girl.
I liked that in the 11th Hour we saw him as the Doctor from the beginning. Much as I've enjoyed most regeneration stories, I dislike the tendency to have the Doctor out of whack and not settled till later in the story. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The idea that the little girl is afraid of the 'monster under the bed' and the Doctor is the only one who believes her and it's a real monster was great, and having him save the world when he is Tardis-less and has only his wits, a laptop and his keen fashion sense ( Bow ties are cool) was a nice bit.

The Tardis can't end up where/when he wants was annoying, as after this episode it isn't a problem the rest of the season.
my only other gripe about this episode, is someday, my son is going to try and eat fish sticks and custard. (shudder)
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby Clara Listensprechen on May 6th, 2011, 11:50 pm

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Last edited by Clara Listensprechen on May 30th, 2011, 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby The Cloaked One on May 7th, 2011, 8:04 am

You've got some points, the little girl could have made an awesome companion compared to Amy. The Doctor did not usually need his Tardis to solve a problem though, I cannot recall any episode where it was vital to solving something, it was just his getaway unless you count the tenth dragging Earth with his Tardis (that's a lie, never happened. I am in denial). The rest was ok. It was nice to see an episode without the all solving, thousand times more powerful than k9, sonic screwdriver, and the infinite passport psychic paper. The old doctors used the sonic screwdriver, but not every episode.
Basically, it had an interesting beginning (until he hopped in his Tardis for 'five minutes') and ending (where he scares off the Atraxi. This is cool, but none of the old Doctor's would have done this, it still feels out of character), everything in between was ok at best and sometimes downright confusing.
Si-Fy and Fantasy, that is where my heart lies. To Doctor Who and its 18 years of brilliance, still waiting on the 50 yr anniversary!
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby tch on May 7th, 2011, 4:47 pm

See, I can almost all the Doctors standing on that rooftop, staring down an enormous alien and basically telling it to go toddle on home and leave Earth alone.
It's a very Doctor moment, that ability to go from eccentric and slightly goofy to an anger that creeps just up to the line of scary. I'm a funny little man, until the line has been crossed.

I can see almost none of them saying 'who da man!' and am glad Matt's Doctor vowed never to do that again.
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby The Cloaked One on May 7th, 2011, 8:49 pm

Precisely that. The Doctor is a man of diplomacy. The third would often go "Is there no other way," Tom Baker would often go out of his way to give the aliens a chance to leave using logic and other reasoning. When this would not work, then would come time to blow up some Silurians. XD
The Doctor was always a humble character. He would defeat aliens and then, basically run, never stay around for the after party. He did not want statues built of himself, he did not want songs written, he came to solve a mystery, save as many lives as he can, and then leave. No 'who da man.' Possibly a stare down, especially if more than one Doctor is gathered because one Doctor is intimidating and unpredictable, two-thirteen is beyond comprehension. But if there is multiple Doctors, they better get ready to kick some ****, not stand around and pose!
It's funny to a degree that what the Master fears most is the Doctor being not only more powerful than himself, but also laughing at him because while the first is true, the second is completely unlike the Doctor and is more of a reflection of what the Master would do.
Davros is also fascinated with the Doctor and has occasionally tried to draw parallels between himself and the Doctor, though their common ground seems to be only levels of intellect.
Compared to the first three, Tom Baker was the first to really demonstrate having a darker side both times when he encountered Davros and at the very end of the Key to Time arc. "Don't you understand Romana, with the key to time I can do anything! No free will, only my will!" Though he always comes out Tom Baker, happy and optimistic.
Si-Fy and Fantasy, that is where my heart lies. To Doctor Who and its 18 years of brilliance, still waiting on the 50 yr anniversary!
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Re: Ack Continuity!

Postby tch on May 7th, 2011, 9:16 pm

See, Doctor and humble aren't two words I'd put in a sentence. They/He ( pronouns get a bit wonky when talking about multiple regenerations) have always had a underlying thread of knowing they are the smartest guy in the room that has always managed to stop short of becoming arrogance.
They've all been willing to give themselves a little pat on the back when they save the day.

While Tom's Doctor has been one of the best at switching from charming to dark, Hartnell's Doctor had a real edge to him. Part of what's so interesting about the very first stories, is you can see where he starts out as a very dark, almost selfish character, and slowly softens, through his contact with his human companions. I think it was Susan's leaving that really pushed him into realizing he needed people with him and made him the grandfatherly type we all think of.

Eccelston's Doctor's relationship with Rose was very similar.
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